Q&A Webinar

[Music] [Music] you need to be aware of this when you get a final order you go through the final hearing and the judge makes a final order in Most states that final order is not automatically entered is it and a lot of parents don't realize you are not done paying for attorneys you are not done working on fighting over that final order so even though the judge might have said you this is this is my ruling this is what you get this is what she gets you'd be amazed at how many parents still lose even more after the final or run out of money and can't get the final order entered the way the judge ruled on

it so nobody I don't think most people are telling you guys this but you need to start preparing for that right now and uh there's some there's several things several steps that you need to be aware of but one of them is that you need to get the at at the very end of your hearing the judge renders their order and hopefully you have a court reporter and it's on a transcript you need to get the end of that transcript before that order is entered okay that's going to save you a lot of money otherwise the other side is going to try to convince you oh no no no judge didn't say this you got that not

this and when that order gets entered it doesn't mean that you can't go back and fight it and say oh that's not with the judge order but guess what that's even harder it's more money um you know waiting more time delays all kinds of stuff the other thing is is if it gets entered and that's not what the judge ordered then there are several things that you can do to try to get more yourself as well as before that order is entered you can start preparing to get more if Justice wasn't really delivered okay so it's not the end at the final now how many of you are in modification right now like I saw you

shake your head you're in you're not modification it's your it's your initial proceedings right the first time okay I can't hear you click on the unmute you see it at the top it should be at the top of your screen and okay there you go I can hear you is this better that's much better yes um basically uh I been in court twice the first time I was in court I was uh to motion show order show cause yeah yeah prior to that almost six months I didn't uh they have done a couple courts and hearing supposedly and my ex-wife to be uh she she got an order of protection and she placed in divorce

everything and every time I was going over there I was never heard I never saw a judge so I saw an actual judge after six months and a half actually was it a judge or a magistrate no it was a judge I never seen I never seen a face of any maistry or anybody else the reason why they used to keep me separate because she placed an X part order right so they used to keep us separate and all I saw is my law my first lawyer coming and going the second time my second lawyer coming and going yeah then the third time actually this guys did something better so now where I am it's a in U

modification or order and we have started the trial so we had one day of the trial okay was that just recently yeah it wasn't actually on February uh February 6 was the order or the day that we we were in first time in court and the trial started on the 20th March which was like a week ago a week ago okay explain um to everyone else because they may not understand this but I believe in New York if you're in an area where they do this don't they appoint an attorney for for you uh actually they do if you don't have the resources right money do that to you but uh that was not the

case okay so you're paying for you're paying for your legal assistance right now then right everything yeah and I've three lawyers and the bill is gone skyh high it's like 37 and they sent me another bill for 30 something now 30 400 3,400 and how long how long has this been going on for you it's been going for eight months now maybe eight months okay so not very long do you think you've spent over 15,000 at this point just for the the divorce and the child custody and yeah there just those two I've spent uh 20,000 right okay wow okay well and just so you know in one in one section of mine at one point

I think it was less than two months my bill was up over 15,000 when I went through it all depends on what they decide to do initially a lot of times they'll hit you real hard at the beginning because they'll want to do all kinds of Discovery in your case unfortunately you were hit with the notorious protective order it happens to a lot of guys okay um I haven't heard as it happening to as many women but there are some women that have come to us that this is happening as well um that's the fastest way they gain Advantage right but let let me mention something when you're going through that I'm assuming that the protective

orders filed after you had some kind of separation or or she's you two separated no what happened is that uh she wanted a divorce and in same time she was saying no we're gonna work it okay then uh uh um she wanted me to find another job I want to find a job then uh I'm coming from Train from Chicago then she have picked up everything she have looked for new daycare she have looked for new apartment uh so it was my day off she called the police she said that I'm I'm taking the child away from her okay so so what happened is that she filed I was served with a divorce at

home a day prior to she Liv in the house actually so she didn't show up she show up later she left again uh then uh to days later or three days later when after I already went the same day at the lawyer I was served with a divorce um she already had to apply for expart uh okay but but yeah that's what I meant is that they serve it when they separate or they file for divorce right the protective order okay so what we've discovered that you need to bring up to your attorney is there is a Doctrine I don't recall the name of it so I have to look that up but the

concept behind it is that no new conditions can be created during the pendency of the child custody battle or the divorce I'm not saying new evidence you send me the link so I can yeah I gotta look up the doctrine now not right now you know I don't I know I'm taking everybody's time no I think that's what everyone's here for I mean you guys okay we're holding this discussion so um the qu what I'm bringing up right now what is this um is something that all of you need to be aware of and that is one side gains Advantage by creating drama inflaming the court when they do this the other thing that they

start to do is they alienate your child from you they are creating conditions that did not exist before the filing of the divorce when they create these conditions you have to plead to the court to not allow them to use conditions that they create okay but that now that doesn't mean they can't enter evidence to try to prove you're guilty of something that means that they cannot use evidence they created so I hope that makes sense to you guys if it doesn't you need to send me an email so I can discuss it with you separately okay for the the things that she got she was even lying on on the the

documents like lying actual like date that she was putting and stuff that she was putting she was even not even at home you know what I'm saying like I was not even at home you know like [Music] so um if they bring this up I'll be more than happy to go with it you know okay the lon is separate okay the line is where you will have your attorney and attorneys know how to do this part they will try to uh prove to the court that they don't have good character yeah so that the court won't believe them yeah okay so anything that they say after that it's pretty much like the Court's like whatever um

it's a he said she said and your attorney tries to get the court to trust and believe you more um so the yeah so the lying is a problem now if you if you if you're able to prove something um in a lie that has caused you damage there are laws in a lot of States regarding that but most parents fail at actually getting those laws used they fail at convincing the family court judge to use anything that happens in the course of the divorce even if they're lying about you because they try to make you think this is just about your child and property division they don't care about all that

they assume both sides are going to lie the problem is when they use those lies to punish you okay when they use those lies to to justify ordering and protective order when the court uses those lies that's a problem but here's how they use the lies is if you open up to the court that you are asking them to choose between you and the mom or the mom's asking them to choose between her and you yes then you're giving the court The Authority yeah the authority you got that the the authority and the ability then to provide you with what you're asking for and if they don't side with you you don't get to go to appeal court

and relitigate it too bad you had your opportunity to convince them that's why you don't want to do that no matter how yeah I I'm sure you didn't it it's usually usually the parents we get here are the ones that are being attacked they are the ones generally that believed that the courts would never believe their lies right they believed that they could just have an attorney protect them and they would be fine and that they would walk away with a fair uh a fair U ruling when that doesn't happen you're already behind the apall and you're already going broke because the third thing that they do so first they go for the protective order

second they use conditions they create during the pendency of the divorce and child custody battle and then third they could they put a bunch of expensive burdens in place to run you out of money so that you can't protect yourself anymore or defend yourself anymore and then what happens is one of you usually the person that runs out of money has to give in okay so they're using very what's that I'm hoping she will be the one at this point well yeah but that but that but that's not a very good uh strategy to use I know can pay college for the kid yeah I know you don't want to use that strategy but

they're not giving you a whole lot of options okay so we're going to change that we're going to give you some other options you can take to your attorney I I did work with some parents in New York their attorneys uh were appointed they had me on the phone with their attorney and I would help explain different parts of the strategy that they could insert into the strategy they're using for you right now and that helped them at actually one of them ended up having to withdraw their case because they were going to be held in contempt for something so sometimes the solution is as simple as that now in your case she

filed so you can't withdraw okay so she filed so you have you have to go about this a different way so let let me move on to another question here and I think it's going to give you some more information too so I want to make sure I get to some other people but write those three things down because I want to email that to you and that's creating creating condition condition yeah I wrote that yeah creating conditions and then also um preventing uh costly burdens and so what you need on that is you need how to shift the burden of proof onto her because if she's lying and getting away with it right now her

burden of proof hasn't been raised on her they're using the lowered preponderance of evidence standards yeah that's that's why person told me you know all these come to the court if they if she's saying that she's have to but what theyve been doing right now they're saying oh you got only the problem the money and the custody like you said so they're not bringing up how we are in this situation what do you mean how we are where uh she got full custody in first place they were giving me 15 hours uh I haven't seen any judge or it was you know then uh uh okay so so you're talking about due process violations WR

that down okay there's different ways we go about it don't just have you file um complaints or grievances about due process what we do is we have you start presenting to the court different you know you use some different arguments in the court that requires them to increase the protections that they're using so in other words we show you how to implement that proper due process and guide that judge so you have to guide that judge if the attorney's just letting the judge run everything yes and take over yeah then you're going to get the same bad results and once they've picked one side if you keep going down that path you're

going to keep getting those same results so your attorney needs to learn how to ask the judge and how to present the judge with the proper solution okay and some of them are scared to do that but when they get a little bit of our help they're they they become much more comfortable with it to you the same thing I had uh uh 18 minutes ago before we were waiting on this uh I told my lawyer if I can place a motion regarding adjusting my uh the money you know the child support why I cannot place a motion regarding seeing the child on a weekend yeah and they you don't want to piss him off you don't

want to do this you don't want to do this I'm like it's my child you know that's same as it's hers it's mine why I cannot do that oh Bo he's busy you know he's doing this he's doing that yeah but this is my case you know if you cannot be able to and then she goes to me oh I'm not going to like just am I saying like I'm not going to do it you guys I'm like okay then why why are you better why are you paying that attorney at least they're letting you know you know I don't want to you know I don't want to be without an attorney because this is

my third lawyer and every time I go to the court even for a piece of paperwork when I wanted to like transcript and you know what she said what yeah I'm anything I'm not saying go without an attorney I'm saying these are things need to ask the attorney if they're willing to do for you and when they say no they're not and you continue to use them you're basically giving in then I'm giving in because there is no other person around here and I mean this that will go along with you know what I need in order to do the right thing are they telling you everybody I met they want the money first and they tell you what

they gonna do for you without you know even that you have on your head okay I got this I got that I got that and I need this and need that and I need that yeah and they are like okay no you can't do that no you can't do that well that is the that's a common problem again and then you have to decide because you're right you can't force them to do what you want and some of them will will tell you it's not GNA the judge isn't going to agree with you right so they're afraid they're afraid of you getting a bad result by pushing what for what you want

and what you're pushing for May absolutely be your right like you said it's your child right if there's no direct danger you cause to your child or and you're not unfit there's really no reason they should be in there restricting you more than restricting the mom so you know this but they also know that's not the way the judges do it but it's also not the way they're asking the judges to do it and they're not they're telling you they're not willing to change that and a lot of times I get feedback from attorneys that who aren't willing to do this and they say you know why I don't like to lose but I tell them but but the

children are losing when you don't do this they're losing but the way they look at it is hey sometimes we convince the judge to side with us so I'm okay with that but I told them but then they lost that other parent you still didn't win but they don't care yeah when when they don't care you cannot force them if you're if you don't want to do it on your own which I don't blame you okay so so it doesn't mean we're going to stop giving you information or stop helping you you may you may be able to do some of this through your testimony once you get a chance to be heard you may be able

to do some of this yourself okay while having an attorney and that's a discussion we can have as well so you may not be able to get as much in there but you might be able to get a little more okay when when an attorney is absolutely refusing to do these things though and you have to you know you have to them because that's all you're comfortable with then you might have to be okay with what they do and your only other alternative is then to get active with legislative process and get those laws changed because the judges a lot of times they're dealing with judges who are strict constructionists and they

only are willing to do what's in the statute even though they can challenge the statute themselves they can say this is not going to be constitutionally applied I you know I won't get a just result with this statute so I'm not going to I'm going to suspend this Statute in this CA they can do that they're the judge a lot of them don't do that because that still ends up challenged by the other side right judge didn't follow statute I you know and then the appell court could end up siding against them you know so you still end up with a long fight like that and the judges know it unfortunately though for these judges that are

stripping children of their rights to be with both parents parents are getting smart now and they're ending up with a long fight anyways so when you present them with the proper Solutions you'll actually be judges who take control will start asking you during the hearing okay so you you're wanting the equal time you're wanting this you're wanting that you know because I'm assuming your your attorney will still ask for that okay they may ask you then how does that solve the problem right how does that solve you two fighting um and you have to be prepared to give them a solution that they can actually do that they are comfortable with so that's where you convince them

with what you learn here that's where you get opportunity and I've seen this happen in so many cases almost every case that we've helped on the judge at some point turns and asks the witnesses questions themselves okay so you have to be ready for that you don't really want them taking over from your attorney because you're paying your attorney to protect you but if they are willing to hear your Solution that's perfect opportunity I've seen some parents blow that opportunity because they didn't prepare they didn't know what to give them so so we'll help we'll remind me to discuss that in a few minutes is I see a lot of people responding one person says

they had six lawyers that never did anything well one thing you have to remember what did you ask them to do and then what did you provide them with to help them do that and I know a lot of you might say but it's my lawyer I'm paying them they should know how to do this if they don't you're gonna have to help them I agree they should know how to do this but they don't so you need to provide them with the tools to do it some of them refuse because you don't provide them with the tools the other reason what did we discuss the other reason is they don't perceive doing that

as winning they don't understand that if you put this on the record properly you have more opportunity to challenge it in the appeal court yes that takes time in some states it takes two years I've seen it take two years here in Texas but how many years maybe not you yet but some of these other parents how many years have you already been fighting I know Rustin who's helping with our legislative process right now has been fighting over 10 years what would two years have have done and how would that have made a difference if he had actually put on the record all of these things that preserved his opportunity to have the

appet courts actually visit whether or not it was constitutional that would have been way more powerful it would have changed the game but a lot of people think and attorneys this is going to make it more difficult like said you're going to piss your judge off okay well so far with every parent we've worked with that has followed these materials without implementing other stuff like there's there's other methods that some people try to combine with our methods and so I can't be responsible if you piss the judge off with that but the ones that have stuck strictly to the methods that we got from the Supreme Court materials so when they say you're going to piss

the judge off when you leave the judge guessing about why you're doing what you're doing when you leave them guessing or or believing that challenging the Court's idea of what's best for your child is is just you being difficult if you leave them with that idea or you don't address it like addressing the elephant in the room then yes the judge will be upset because you're asking the judge to do something they're not used to and then you're not providing them with the proper Authority or the tools to do it so you just frustrated them so the attorneys are telling you I don't know how to give this to the judge without

frustrating them okay well you can talk to them and overcome them mat [Music] [Music]